Author Topic: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich  (Read 4058 times)

joe

  • Mudders
  • **
  • Posts: 349
Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« on: January 09, 2009, 09:09:00 PM »
some observations after a day at the hand and knuckle ridge. 

Gavin and I left the parking lot shortly after 8 am. he had never climbed on the hand and with the closures looming on Thursday, a few last explorations.  when I hiked out to the neglected valley, a bit later in the morning last sunday there was sun on the hand.  so the plan was to "warm" up on loveline and then chase the sun for a return trip to knuckle ridge.  well, needless to say, the sun never hit us on the hand.  37 degrees when I parked the car and not much warmer at the base of the climb.  cold rock made for some pumpy climbing.  since we weren't able to feel the holds very well, we held on longer as our forearms grew in size. 
a couple of thoughts about loveline.  this was only my second time on it and while it was not as loose this time, the first pitch makes for a dangerous belay.  helmet absolutely necessary for the belayer. I still think it is a stellar line.  with the shade, this would be a good one to do after the raptor closures end in june or in the fall.  I also think there would be some value to stringing a rope on the first pitch and pulling off all the loose rock.  the first pitch would also make a good tr for running laps and building strength, although I enjoy the second pitch more.  finally, the consensus again was 10b my ass.

we also ran a lap on carpal tunnel which is another excellent route, although again we both felt it was quite stout for the grade.  very sustained.  there are a number of climbs rated harder that don't come near the pump factor of these two.  also a good late season climb in that it never sees the sun.

the adventure part of the day came at knuckle ridge.  sunday, late in the day, I led up the edge of sundown and as the sun was getting low in the sky decided to leave a quick link on the 7th bolt, just below the 10b run out.  although the moves did not feel difficult above the bolt, the rock was crumbly and the fall potential was dangerous.  it seemed like definite broken ankle possibility with the large blocks below the bolt.  it was then that I realized that when a crux is described as 'very committing' in the guidebook, that actually is a euphemism for dangerous.

so, although the original plan was to lead up the other run out 10, we saw that you could do a 4th class  ridge traverse to access the top.  what an adventure.

I'm assuming some of you folks have done this.  of course, we accessed the northern most knuckle from the climbers right.  probably a mistake right off the back.  second, there were at least 3-4 serious down climbs required on choss with softball and even football sized blocks breaking off.  gavin, especially, commented that there was no way those down climbs were easier than many 5.6's in the park, not even considering the choss factor.  of course we were soloing in approach shoes, although gavin did bring his rock shoes and wisely changed about half way through.  also, I set up a rope for him to access the southern most knuckle.

so when I finally access the southern knuckle, of course the 2 bolts are so far from the climbs, there is no way they could be used for anything.  to make matters more interesting, instead of climbing onto the southern knuckle, gavin was able to down climb to the ground on very easy terrain, which raises the question of why those bolts are even there since you really don't need them to rappel and they're too far away from the climbs.  I also down climbed to the ground from that point.   but perhaps most importantly, why aren't there a couple of bolts with rap rings near the climbs themselves? 

unless I missed something.  the book describes a 2 rope rappel that can be made off the southernmost knuckle.  but the picture only shows the 'way back' anchor.

so, what we learned is that if you are interested in climbing any of those climbs on knuckle ridge, it probably is best for the leader to trail a second rope to  set up an anchor near the top of the climbs. 

I guess as a side note, since I've rambled this long already, so many folks are still tapping in bolts to put up chossy, no star climbs, of questionable quality, climbing through lichen and moss, knocking crap on your belayer. 
the plums are taken.

and there are so many decent climbs in the monument that are rarely done, in part because the anchor situation is substandard.  or you're belaying on one bolt, like flue fire/chimney sweep, or no bolts like bull run or baile de las aguilas.  or where a couple of rap rings would so improve the climb, like denied.

just my tired and rambling opinion, but if folks really like to bolt, perhaps doing some anchor work would make more sense then putting up another chossy line that no one in there right mind is going to climb.

of course, that would exclude most of us.
forgive my rambling.

F4?

  • unworthy
  • Posts: 6175
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2009, 09:20:38 PM »
Told yah, Knucle Ridge is where the hardmen go.

You should have done AquaCruda to the left.

I'm not worthy.

Brad Young

  • Grand Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 6736
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 09:56:08 PM »
On Knuckle Ridge, I did the traverse in the early 90's with Doug. We also thought it was easy fifth class. I made a decision not to rate it harder in the book for two reasons. First, it was historic and had always been rated class four (for a similar situation, see the route description for the regular route on Crud and Mud). And, since it is an unprotectable solo, fourth class gives the right feel. But 5.6 seems significantly too high. As to the summit bolts, Mr Mud gave me an explanation of their location once that made sense, but I can't recall now what he said. Perhaps he can address that.

Weird about Loveline. I thought 10b was perfect. I reached this conclusion after comparing it to lots of other 10b routes, especially Get a Grip which is equally good and about the same difficulty, and quite nearby. I thought it wasn't as hard as the hard part of Edge of Sundown, for example, and a lot easier than Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. (Of course Edge of Sundown was also originally rated 5.9+ by the first ascentionists, I'm the one who "uprated" it). Castles Made of Sand seems harder and Relayer seems much harder.

As to "convenience anchors," I don't think anyone would object. It might be good to ask a first ascentionist if they mind such anchors being placed, but I'd be surprised if any said "no." Even Mr Mud, who's known to be a stubborn old coot would probably be fine with another, more convenient anchor atop Knuckle Ridge. Ask him. And there are a good numbers of folks who'd probably help you place them.

The way cool thing about your post, though, is that you guys are getting out into the back country. Too few people ever go beyond Bear Gulch. Very nice.

Brad Young

  • Grand Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 6736
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2009, 10:11:45 PM »
I should add, too that I did Loveline on a warm October day, when the climb itself was the perfect temp. Sounds like the cold made it hard, which happens to me all the time (two weekends ago I could barely follow the first pitch of Sons of the West - I couldn't feel my hands).

squiddo

  • Pin Heads
  • *
  • Posts: 2383
  • If it itches, scratch it.
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2009, 10:47:01 PM »
Joe,

Sounds like a great day. Wish I had a partner, snif snif (bratton).

PS.

Denied, indeed, great route/nice lead but true, anchor bolts at the mark would make it perfect. Just my $.02....interested in change back?

Loveline is on the list....looks like a wondeful line and now much more so.

Brad...Old Coot..that had me laughing out loud (LOL for those less inclined to spell shit out).

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Every climb gets 3 stars from me until I climb it.
-Anonymous spirited climber

joe

  • Mudders
  • **
  • Posts: 349
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2009, 09:18:15 AM »
wow.  I just re-read my post this morning.  what a cranky old fart.  rather than take responsibility for my rambling, I'm going to blame you guys.  I caught your cold from hanging out on this site with you guys and that explains the trip report turning into a discourse on all that is wrong with the world. 

a couple of points to follow up.  I can't say enough good things about the new guide book.  I understand only a fraction of what goes into putting together a labor of love.  so to nitpick about a rating here or there is not my message, as much as to perhaps inform those that are considering a climb that it may be a  bit harder than anticipated.

having done loveline a few years ago when it was '10+', I thought that was right.  when it was then rated 10b, I thought well that could be right too.  after yesterday, I think it's a bit harder than that.  Gavin, a very strong climber, hung many times on the first pitch.  granted, the rock was cold and we couldn't feel our hands, but I think the sustained nature of the climb warrants consideration.

I agree that knuckle ridge traverse is probably not a 5.6, but I would also warn people not to do it unless you're really into serious and unnecessary risk.  much easier to access those bolts through the chute on the back side.

also, I very much appreciate all of you mudders putting up these routes.  otherwise, I would be looking into taking up shuffleboard.  very impressive stuff.


F4?

  • unworthy
  • Posts: 6175
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2009, 09:48:40 PM »
Squiddo...meet at my place tomorrow at 6.

Lava is fixed head to toe and sporting NEW lead bolts!
I'm not worthy.

mynameismud

  • unworthy
  • Posts: 5978
    • Mudncrud
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 10:29:17 PM »
Yeah all fixed except the crux bolt is not there yet.  Just a real nice hole.

Joe,
No apologies, please.  No one here deserves them and all guidebooks deserve and need a good rant.  That to goes for people that put up routes.

Dave and I were having a bad hair day when we put those anchors in.  They really need to be moved.  I suppose I will put that on the 'to do list".

The Traverse is sporty but that was the way they rolled all back in the day.  No gear just a big heart.

I think chimney sweep only has one bolt since it is a top belay anchor.  There is a good spot for a persons butt.  Not meant for top ropes.  That was the old school way.  Have seen that a fair bit.  Hearkens back to the hip belay.

Ranting is good.  Do not go getting all soft and mushy on us.  F*$&ing hate that.

Nice write up and

Here's to sweat in your eye
 
Here's to sweat in your eye

squiddo

  • Pin Heads
  • *
  • Posts: 2383
  • If it itches, scratch it.
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2009, 07:40:41 AM »
well said Mr Mud and props to you and F4 (anyone else?) involved in the rebolting. Too bad I'll miss the closures and will need to wait.

F4....who reads email late in the evening?

Next time call my cell dingus. Today's a coe day.

PS, suk it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Every climb gets 3 stars from me until I climb it.
-Anonymous spirited climber

mynameismud

  • unworthy
  • Posts: 5978
    • Mudncrud
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2009, 11:09:36 PM »
factor, Clint, Brian

All bolts now replaced on Lava Falls.  Some Cleanup needed.


Shake and Bake.  The last bolt on the 3rd pitch still needs to be replaced and the 1st bolt on the second pitch needs to be replaced.  Plus all the Bolts on the 1st pitch are still the originals. 

Whoohoo

What did you ride at Coe?
Here's to sweat in your eye

Brad Young

  • Grand Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 6736
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2009, 07:36:27 AM »
Be impressed at what these four guys were doing. ALL day, up and down the ropes, "tap, tap, tap..." They were already up their ropes when we got there, and still tap taping when we left. A brilliant, magnificent public service.

If CC does a trip report, I hope he posts it here, not just on Supertopo.

F4?

  • unworthy
  • Posts: 6175
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2009, 07:53:46 AM »
Clint, Eric and Brian are studs. They hung on shake and bake drilling 1/2 x 6 inch holes! I don't think Clint even touched ground all day!

Try hanging in your harness for 2-3 hrs, not moving while pounding and twisting the drill. Not fun!
I'm not worthy.

Brad Young

  • Grand Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 6736
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2009, 08:10:50 AM »
Oh, and Mr Mud, pending a bigger trip report, curious what "Some Cleanup needed" means?

squiddo

  • Pin Heads
  • *
  • Posts: 2383
  • If it itches, scratch it.
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 08:23:31 AM »
that is so great guys. Major public service.

Monster ride from Hunting Hallow entrance. 33 miles and 5500 feet of climbing. Without question, the single hardest day of riding on the single speed that I've done. That being said, what a beautiful day. Perfect temps, sticky trails, lots of wildlife (spied two bobcats) and good times.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Every climb gets 3 stars from me until I climb it.
-Anonymous spirited climber

mynameismud

  • unworthy
  • Posts: 5978
    • Mudncrud
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 09:22:34 AM »
Some holes need patching and some studs need to be removed.  Same on Shake and Bake.

Brad,
Thank you for rebolting Digger.  That route really needed it.

Putting in 3/8" in bolts seems really casual now.

Oh, and Mr Mud, pending a bigger trip report, curious what "Some Cleanup needed" means?
Here's to sweat in your eye

joe

  • Mudders
  • **
  • Posts: 349
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 11:02:13 AM »
thanks so much guys.  two of the best routes in the monument.  truly a yeoman's effort.
beers on me next time.

F4?

  • unworthy
  • Posts: 6175
Re: Hand pump and knuckle sandwich
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 11:34:54 AM »
Suprisingly, many of the bolts on Lava didn't give up without a fight. The result was some ugly cratering on one side. Other time the bolt sheered off!!

We didn't have time to do the patch work.
I'm not worthy.