Author Topic: Machete Arch FFA? (Read 9938 times)

mynameismud · « **on:** June 09, 2007, 08:08:06 PM »

Sent. Left to Right.
Does anyone know of anyone else that has lead this?

F4? · « **Reply #1 on:** June 09, 2007, 10:51:42 PM »

This route is unique!

Such exposure, yet so close to the ground.

Maybe send Larry @ Mtn Tools an e-mail. I recall Brad mentioning something.

Brad Young · « **Reply #2 on:** June 10, 2007, 05:02:03 AM »

Call Larry, but I don't remember anything about anyone ever having freed it. Not the high traverse. I got Mr Mud's email as we were editing last night, so we put it in. Maybe the fastest FFA to make it into a guidebook ever?

F4? · « **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2007, 08:42:48 PM »

Was this the last great problem at the Pinnacles?? Oh, wait Premeditated is.

Okay, was this the 2nd to last great problem?

karl · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2007, 08:37:08 AM »

Nice job!

Hey does anyone know if anyone has ever freed Bridwell Bolts? I've eyed it over the years, but never tried it.

mynameismud · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2007, 10:18:28 AM »

It has not gone. I tried it quite a few years ago, gave up part way bolts sucked. I tried the bottom part on tr. I think one or two others tried. It was loose. You are quite strong and can pull down on tiny holds. That would be an awesome tick if you pulled it off.

Burner · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2007, 11:31:11 AM »

I would try it with you for a day if you want karl.

karl · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2007, 02:13:23 PM »

Sounds great.

I'd love to give a try early in the morning when the weather drops about 25-30 degrees.

Stom,
It looked pretty loose from where I was looking. Too bad. If someone were to pick up the FFA or first lead (if it ever got toproped clean), it may not be repeatable . . . or at least repeatable at the same grade, given the assumption of lost holds.

Karl

mynameismud · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2007, 09:37:27 AM »

Here is another that I tried a couple of times that I think may be attainable by the right person. Son of Dawn Wall. I think that the bolt ladder could possibly go. I tried this on TR and was able to link a few moves, here and there. At the time I thought it near impossible to be able to let go and clip in a few places. Would be cool if someone was able to free the whole route.

Burner · « **Reply #9 on:** June 12, 2007, 05:59:06 PM »

Out of curiousity what is the ethics of freeing an aid route.
Say we top rope it a few times and decide it will probably go on lead.
1. Can we break off the loose rocks that are going to kill our belayer?
2. If there is a section where a lead fall would kill you can you add a bolt? (I'm assuming this isn't the case on this route though, and generally isn't the case on anything easier then A4)
3. Can you replace bolts that will hold body weight but wouldn't take repeated leader falls, ie at the crux?
Anything I else I would want to ask?
Karl I'm sort of injured right now, hopefully be ready by next weekend just send me a pm or something when you want to give it a try.
Shane

karl · « **Reply #10 on:** June 12, 2007, 06:10:35 PM »

Shane,

Are you crazy?

I wouldn't try that route until the fall. It gets full sun all day.

As for ethics... I don't think people would like you to pull stuff off intentionally.
As for bolts, they don't get replaced since they are part of what makes the aid fun. The only ones that are acceptable are anchors (e.g. on a free route on El Cap at the belays). People do "cleanup" the fixed junk, which is essentially pitons, heads, and it gets a little shady when it comes to "fixed" cams and nuts.

As for Bridwell... Brad cleaned up a lot of the bolts and it should be good to go for free climbing.

If I tried it, I'd just like to start from the ground and see what happens. Just wear a helmet and stand aside for the belay.

Who knows, if my carpal tunnel surgery would heal and I can get into shape, I could try to onsight it. Or I could get the flash after you do. That is this fall or winter.

mynameismud · « **Reply #11 on:** June 12, 2007, 09:05:04 PM »

The Pins seem to have a bit of a unique history. The less tampering the better. Technically if you get it clean on TR you cannot claim the first lead but that has happened it is just considered poor form. Ground up is the way to go. Most of the loose stuff comes off when you pull on it hard. Freeing an aid line with really bad bolts is the best form possible, that said some people have replaced the real sketch bolts to make freeing stuff a bit more doable. A couple of bolts have been replaced on the Son of Dawn Wall bolt ladder. If you go for that you may want to replace one or more additional bolts.

Quote from: Burner on June 12, 2007, 05:59:06 PM

Out of curiousity what is the ethics of freeing an aid route.
Say we top rope it a few times and decide it will probably go on lead.
1. Can we break off the loose rocks that are going to kill our belayer?
2. If there is a section where a lead fall would kill you can you add a bolt? (I'm assuming this isn't the case on this route though, and generally isn't the case on anything easier then A4)
3. Can you replace bolts that will hold body weight but wouldn't take repeated leader falls, ie at the crux?
Anything I else I would want to ask?
Karl I'm sort of injured right now, hopefully be ready by next weekend just send me a pm or something when you want to give it a try.
Shane

mungeclimber · « **Reply #12 on:** June 12, 2007, 09:37:47 PM »

personally, i think if it is a bolt, replace it to free it. I disagree with Mr Mud. a hole is a hole.

If the hole is rivet though, as part of the original aid line, then either a variant away from an arm's reach of the aid line to make it go free can legitimize an additional bolt. or, you lead past the rivet to the next good bolt.

basically Wall style ethic to shorter aid routes...

sometimes pin placements blow out and a new bolt to replace it can be justified as well.

use good judgment and you'll do fine. (Brad already did replace some of the bolts aways back)

F4? · « **Reply #13 on:** June 12, 2007, 10:26:36 PM »

"The Pins seem to have a bit of a unique history. The less tampering the better. Technically if you get it clean on TR you cannot claim the first lead but that has happened it is just considered poor form. Ground up is the way to go. Most of the loose stuff comes off when you pull on it hard. Freeing an aid line with really bad bolts is the best form possible, that said some people have replaced the real sketch bolts to make freeing stuff a bit more doable. A couple of bolts have been replaced on the Son of Dawn Wall bolt ladder. If you go for that you may want to replace one or more additional bolts."

What about instead of a hanger one was to put a jug? A chip?

The second headwall on the Son of Dawn wall is pretty shitty rock, good luck. Maybe one could get lucky and pull a hold that would create a bigger hold....

I second Munge, a hold is a hole. Fill it with a proper hole. Add too many and Mr Mud might come after you. Just tell him he has to free the route before he can remove any bolts. Good logic?

F4? · « **Reply #14 on:** June 12, 2007, 10:29:11 PM »

So back to the original thread....the arch. It needs a little more cleaning.

Brad, will you give it a star?

Burner · « **Reply #15 on:** June 12, 2007, 11:45:47 PM »

The hotter it is the better I climb

I've climbed there when it was 110 at 9am, and it was no different then any other day except I drank 6 liters of water. (actually probably better because when its cold I usually overgrip) My hands don't sweat though.
I guess what I meant by knocking off loose stuff I mean more by hand then the crowbar method used at goldwall.
For bolts my question is for stuff like the two bolts at the bottom of cantalope death, there is no way I would ever consider a fall on them. I might give it a try on tr next time I'm there, but I have lots of stuff I want to get on there if I ever convince someone its worth going there and watching me fall alot so I can wait until its a little cooler.

mynameismud · « **Reply #16 on:** June 13, 2007, 07:57:07 AM »

I am interested and have a few projects of my own. The next couple of months are a bit busy for me but I will let you know the next time I have a day free for the Pins. Those bolts on Cantaloupe Direct will not hold a fall. When I lead that I did it by pre-clipping the first bolt on Cantaloupe a spot is good also since you swing into the rock behind if you come off to low.

Quote from: Burner on June 12, 2007, 11:45:47 PM

The hotter it is the better I climb I've climbed there when it was 110 at 9am, and it was no different then any other day except I drank 6 liters of water. (actually probably better because when its cold I usually overgrip) My hands don't sweat though.
I guess what I meant by knocking off loose stuff I mean more by hand then the crowbar method used at goldwall.
For bolts my question is for stuff like the two bolts at the bottom of cantalope death, there is no way I would ever consider a fall on them. I might give it a try on tr next time I'm there, but I have lots of stuff I want to get on there if I ever convince someone its worth going there and watching me fall alot so I can wait until its a little cooler.

mungeclimber · « **Reply #17 on:** June 13, 2007, 01:55:08 PM »

why not just replace those nasty ass bolts?

mynameismud · « **Reply #18 on:** June 14, 2007, 07:04:50 AM »

The actual line for the direct is off to the right, so you cannot clip the bolts from where the current line goes up. It is most likely possible to do a different start over by the old bolts. It is definitely possible to start from the left and go up and right to the start of Cantaloupe Death.

Besides that, it is just really good form to climb on shite bolts.

Jake M. · « **Reply #19 on:** June 15, 2007, 06:45:55 AM »

As long as you don't fall, which would then cause your ankle, (or worse) to be in very bad form for a long time...

I guess that's the appeal.

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Author Topic: Machete Arch FFA? (Read 9938 times)