Quest for Mud (Special Edition)

[mungeclimber]

Next week may be able to check it out.

[Marco]

Random story time
On 4/4/21 I met Brad and BAP for the first time while they were working on The Flying None. I was taking my buddy (more brother at this point) on his 2nd ever multi, his first being Rebeccas Sailing earlier that day.
The climb went uneventful. While setting up the rap on the Costanoan P3 anchor I watched his phone slide out of view into the void. We got down to the P1 ledge and I slung that bush on the ledge and lowered him down into that notable gully to the left of Costanoan. Before finding his phone he recovered another working iphone and the helmet that I use to this day (I need a new helmet now but is $50 worth your brain? - idk).
Point being if someone were to go develop that I bet the route would pay for itself in booty.

[mungeclimber]

/me rubs his hands together with $$ for eyes.



Booo TAY!

[Marco]

So, if anybody wants a ratty biner, it's all yours.

She found some of the rock quality suspect, also bailing.

Booo TAY!

[Brad Young]

Wow, ratty indeed!

[Marco]

For the first few years I climbed I used only this style biners on my alpines and draws. After talking to Bart about gate flutter and hearing of his accident I switched to mostly wiregates on my draws. So now these are likely going in the ratty biner collection, I suspect they are to rarely see the light of day again.

EDIT:
does anyone use this trick for bailing off a solid bolt or would some consider it unwise?

Use it whenever bailing these days because the other safer alternative is to leave draws behind on the previous two bolts not just current

[Gavin]

For the first few years I climbed I used only this style biners on my alpines and draws. After talking to Bart about gate flutter and hearing of his accident I switched to mostly wiregates on my draws. So now these are likely going in the ratty biner collection, I suspect they are to rarely see the light of day again.

EDIT:
does anyone use this trick for bailing off a solid bolt or would some consider it unwise?

Use it whenever bailing these days because the other safer alternative is to leave draws behind on the previous two bolts not just current

So are you lowering off of just one bolt with this technique? If so, I'm not sure I see much advantage over leaving a carabiner or screwlink instead... except that you can't retrieve your leaver. With your technique here, you have less rope to work with - a third of the total rope distance instead of half - and the fabric-on-fabric friction seems likely to compromise the integrity of the sling eventually... which is probably worth more than the leaver biner.

[NOAL]

How does that hot dog fit through the hanger?

[mungeclimber]

I use/used that style of rappel bail method for shorter routes and only on solid bolts. Since I replace my slings over time, the longevity point that Gavin raises isn't too much of an issue if using nylon rather than dyneema since I'd inspect and swap out my sling before I'd wear out a carabiner.  Else, sacrificed non-wire gate carabiners on the last and or last two bolts when the high point is longer.

[Marco]

So are you lowering off of just one bolt with this technique? If so, I'm not sure I see much advantage over leaving a carabiner or screwlink instead... except that you can't retrieve your leaver. With your technique here, you have less rope to work with - a third of the total rope distance instead of half - and the fabric-on-fabric friction seems likely to compromise the integrity of the sling eventually... which is probably worth more than the leaver biner.

I guess I hadn't thought about the fabric on fabric aspect much but that is a a great point. Like you mentioned I typically use it for 20m raps or less. Though I suppose even if you use it 3/4 times before the sling is compromised it monetarily covers the cost in lost leaver biners.

How does that hot dog fit through the hanger?

The trick is to use kielbasa 

I use/used that style of rappel bail method for shorter routes and only on solid bolts. Since I replace my slings over time, the longevity point that Gavin raises isn't too much of an issue if using nylon rather than dyneema since I'd inspect and swap out my sling before I'd wear out a carabiner.  Else, sacrificed non-wire gate carabiners on the last and or last two bolts when the high point is longer.

Great point with the Nylon since it has a much higher melting temperature. Though due to the larger thickness it is probably harder to get under the biner that is currently weighted when switching from your PAS to rap.


HowNot2 does lots of fantastic climbing gear testing videos if anyone is unfamiliar. I couldnt find the video on youtube but found this on instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6g7fTdxTBb/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ%3D%3D
Even with a 40lb weight (much less than just a rope) you can pull 1000's of ft on a dyneema sling without breaking it.

[clink]

 When dealing with the usual suspects, I became a 2 bolt, 2 biner booty leaver.

 Solid bolt? Isn’t that what a confirmed bachelor does when his girlfriend starts talking about commitment?

 Back on topic, the answer is ‘unwise’. Not that I haven’t done it.

 

[Brad Young]

Even new carabiners are cheap.

[mudworm]

From time to time, I come back here just to confirm that the forum is still alive and kicking. It IS!

does anyone use this trick for bailing off a solid bolt or would some consider it unwise?
https://mountainproject.com/assets/photos/climb/110228908_medium_1494368713.jpg?cache=1701318835
Use it whenever bailing these days because the other safer alternative is to leave draws behind on the previous two bolts not just current

I'm especially pleased to find this post because I'm always interested in seeing new innovative ideas. I like it that someone is able to twist their mind enough to come up with this bail method without leaving a biner behind and without needing a Beal Escaper.

.. - and the fabric-on-fabric friction seems likely to compromise the integrity of the sling eventually... which is probably worth more than the leaver biner.

Even new carabiners are cheap.

I agree with both Gavin and Brad, but still an idea is an idea, so I'll entertain it. How about instead of using a sling through the biner, use a rivet hanger folded over. Of course you make sure the connection points (swages) are on the retrieval side of the hanger. It's stronger, will not be weakened by pulling the rope through, should be easier to retrieve (back out of the hanger) than a folded over sling, light weight to carry on harness all the time and who knows, someday, might be the only gear that can provide protection on an old route when you come up to a bolt without a hanger.

[Brad Young]

How much specialized "junk" are you willing to carry to every crag because you might need it one in a hundred times? How much is your time worth? Even screw-gates are heavy and extra. Just leave a carabiner.

In your case, Mudworm, we need you. You make sure you just leave 'biner any time you need to be safe and then send me the bill. I'll gladly pay for a carabiner if it means keeping you out of danger.

[mudworm]

LOL. Thanks Brad, but you can't call rivet hanger "junk"!

While I myself am quite willing to use this Texas Rope Trick, I know without a doubt that my partner would shutdown that thought. One time we did need to bail off of one (bomber) hanger and he left a screwgate locking biner. A working LOCKING biner!!! Ugh. Pretty sure my utility biner would have been fine.

[burnsbabe]

Nice! These came from some stashed mess at a crag on 108 I hiked into with Brad last month. Did you send, or just go up to get the freebies?

[Brad Young]

Nice! These came from some stashed mess at a crag on 108 I hiked into with Brad last month.

It took me a minute to realize that you were being serious and that these were those carabiners. Given what I know about that crag and who likely left them, these could be 40 years old or even older. I assume you tossed the rotted nylon in the trash?

[Brad Young]

^^^

The same crag at which we found rotted, plastic gallon jugs (sun rotted and now empty) and these damn things, which were still full (and yes, the single finger is intended as an editorial):

[burnsbabe]

It took me a minute to realize that you were being serious and that these were those carabiners. Given what I know about that crag and who likely left them, these could be 40 years old or even older. I assume you tossed the rotted nylon in the trash?

Absolutely. The soft goods went straight in the trash, but these were perfectly fine for bail gear. The beer photo is cracking me up though.

[Marco]

Even new carabiners are cheap.

Its all relative. If I were to bail on two new carabiners there goes 1% of my monthly income (even higher % for the next few months  ).

Did you send, or just go up to get the freebies?

Yes.
Mikayla + Gavin were responsible for the Full Circle booty.

I really like this idea. Though I thought cinch rivet hangers only rated for a few kN which I would think might be weakened when bent in half. I'm sure it would be fine but that would be on my mind the whole abseil.

I'm especially pleased to find this post because I'm always interested in seeing new innovative ideas.

I love that this site is quite supportive. Unlike mountain project where every genuine question quickly get derailed, sometimes becoming debates on grammar and punctuation.