Author Topic: Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook  (Read 764197 times)

squiddo

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #100 on: February 04, 2015, 01:47:51 PM »
For reference purposes:

Credit to T. Corcoran for original image...
Back cover of 1991 Rubine guidebook


that picture still sticks in my head of tom, killing it. The hair too. Is that a mullet and 70's stash? He is a crusher
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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #101 on: February 04, 2015, 05:23:29 PM »
that picture still sticks in my head of tom, killing it. The hair too. Is that a mullet and 70's stash? He is a crusher

Funny dude - looks like a mullet/bowl cut bangs combo :)

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Bruce Hildenbrand

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #102 on: February 04, 2015, 05:33:02 PM »
A couple of things for the next edition :-)  The Hatchet has been rebolted.  Plated 5-piece Rawl/Powers.  Also, someone added a rap station about halfway along the ridge between where the route hits the ridge and the actual top anchor.  There are three bolts.  One bolt has a Fixe single ring hanger.  One bolt has a Fixe double ring hanger.  The other bolt just has a hanger.  The two bolts with rap hangers are about 2 feet apart(yikes!).

The three bolt cluster on the South Ridge of Ridge Rock has been rebolted.  Someone replaced the three bolts with two SS 5-piece Rawl/Powers bolts and Fixe camo hangers.
Edit: added "SS" to description of 5-piece Rawl/Powers.

Also, the date on Tom Rohrer's anchor on top of the Hatchet is 6/4/2004 not 2003 as noted in the guidebook(just for the sake of being completely accurate:-))

mynameismud

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #103 on: February 04, 2015, 06:07:13 PM »
Thank you for the update.
Here's to sweat in your eye

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #104 on: February 04, 2015, 06:35:31 PM »
A couple of things for the next edition :-)  The Hatchet has been rebolted.  Plated 5-piece Rawl/Powers.  Also, someone added a rap station about halfway along the ridge between where the route hits the ridge and the actual top anchor.  There are three bolts.  One bolt has a Fixe single ring hanger.  One bolt has a Fixe double ring hanger.  The other bolt just has a hanger.  The two bolts with rap hangers are about 2 feet apart(yikes!).

The three bolt cluster on the South Ridge of Ridge Rock has been rebolted.  Someone replaced the three bolts with two 5-piece Rawl/Powers bolts and Fixe camo hangers.

Also, the date on Tom Rohrer's anchor on top of the Hatchet is 6/4/2004 not 2003 as noted in the guidebook(just for the sake of being completely accurate:-))

Couple of questions Bruce,

Should we swap out those ring hangers and add some chains on the Hatchet? If so - thoughts on what length?

Are the Ridge Rock bolts non stainless too?

I guess if all this stuff isn't SS/isn't being supplied by ASCA - we have little chance of finding out who is doing the work unless they see this info. I haven't seen any info on either of these formations on any of the lists.
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mungeclimber

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #105 on: February 04, 2015, 07:44:17 PM »
The three bolt cluster was declustered by Mucci.

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #106 on: February 04, 2015, 09:14:56 PM »
The three bolt cluster was declustered by Mucci.

When bro? Any idea why he used non stainless? Before ASCA was providing it perhaps?

Know anything about the Hatchet?
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mungeclimber

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #107 on: February 04, 2015, 09:35:47 PM »
April 2012

No idea on Hatchet rap rings since I'm not sure where Bruce is talking about.
On Aid at Pinns... It's all A1 til it crumbles. - Munge

Bruce Hildenbrand

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #108 on: February 04, 2015, 10:58:37 PM »
Sorry for the confusion.  The bolts on Ridge Rock are stainless( i.e. non-plated :-)).

When you do the regular route on the Hatchet you hit the ridge on the north corner.  From there it is about 50 feet to the actual top.  After you go about 25 feet toward the top there is a small flat area.  That is where the three bolts have been added. I would not touch the added anchor on the Hatchet.  The anchor on the Real(TM) top is fine.  There is no need to have that second, poorly placed, anchor.  Frankly, it should probably be removed.

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #109 on: February 05, 2015, 08:20:21 AM »
Sorry for the confusion.  The bolts on Ridge Rock are stainless( i.e. non-plated :-)).

When you do the regular route on the Hatchet you hit the ridge on the north corner.  From there it is about 50 feet to the actual top.  After you go about 25 feet toward the top there is a small flat area.  That is where the three bolts have been added. I would not touch the added anchor on the Hatchet.  The anchor on the Real(TM) top is fine.  There is no need to have that second, poorly placed, anchor.  Frankly, it should probably be removed.

Cool. Thanks Munge and Bruce - I'll correct the updates.
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Brad Young

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #110 on: February 06, 2015, 11:26:14 AM »

Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see a select book for Pinnacles but I would be surprised to see SuperTopo publishing it. 


I'd be surprised to see anyone publish it for two reasons. First, in essence it already exists. Second, there aren't too many publishers/authors out there who are able and willing to lose money in making a guidebook (and that is an almost certain result unless they use really crappy materials).

Of course, a "select" guidebook in the normal sense doesn't really exist. But many, many climbers nowadays don't buy guidebooks at all. Instead they simply take cell phone photos of the parts of a book that interest them (while at the store, or from friends' books) and then use their own, personalized "select" book while at the crag. This is theft of course, but the people doing it don't/can't see it as wrong - they believe that they are entitled to anyone else's intellectual property at any time they want, and at no cost. It's the new normal now of course. The music industry has been dealing with this issue for a long time.

And don't read the above as sour grapes please. I spent a huge amount of money publishing the current book and didn't care a damn about the expenditure. As of about a year ago (seven years after the book came out) I had actually broken even (gotten back my actual cash out of pocket), but it never mattered to me much if that happened (and I'm almost certain I won't break even on the SPH book - but I don't care). My goal in making books is to try to put good quality information (I hope) out there for the climbing community.

And any "normal" publisher/author who expects even a small profit from any type of future Pinnacles guidebook will almost certainly be disappointed. I don't think there are even remotely enough sales possible at such a small climbing location to break even on a physical guidebook again.

How about a select guidebook that's only a PDF? At least that has no physical components that cost money to make. Maybe that would work. But (as other climbing guidebook authors are finding out) how can you get modern people to pay for something they can get for free (and they can and will get a PDF for free)? And why a select PDF when they can get the whole book for free (by taking photos) or use online information that's also free.

I'm afraid there's little future in selling climbing guidebooks in this day and age. These are, of course, the exact reasons that Steve and I are wondering whether we'll ever do a second edition to our Pinnacles guidebook (I'm leaning toward it - but this time it'd be done knowing with certainty that it'll lose money).

mungeclimber

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #111 on: February 06, 2015, 11:33:30 AM »
You could make money. No question. Just use low grade paper, existing topos, and overseas printing. I'm not advocating that btw. It's just possible to get past break even faster. Call it a Sport Climbing guide and you've got it. lol

Cell phones small form factor make guidebooks in print really useful. There is some market no question, but the cost to the buyer has to be in reach.

How many SPH guides do you need to sell to break even? I'll buy. It's a worthwhile endeavor. To at least break even seems like something a lot of us would get behind.

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Brad Young

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #112 on: February 06, 2015, 12:05:32 PM »

How many SPH guides do you need to sell to break even? I'll buy. It's a worthwhile endeavor. To at least break even seems like something a lot of us would get behind.



I have no idea and I really don't care.

A lot?

And, as usual, thanks for the offered support.

Bruce Hildenbrand

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #113 on: February 26, 2015, 10:02:30 PM »
When we were over at Pipsqueak, someone has added a bolt next to the last bolt on Rightfoot probably to create a two-bolt anchor(no chains) which is about 5-7 feet or so below the existing anchor(which has the massive chains).  My guess is that this was done so topropes could be set up on both the Regular Route and Rightfoot when larger groups were climbing there.

clink

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #114 on: February 27, 2015, 06:51:22 AM »
Quote
larger groups

Stereotyping, we just enjoy eating.

Quote
someone has added a bolt

What the f-four?
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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #115 on: February 27, 2015, 12:02:57 PM »
When we were over at Pipsqueak, someone has added a bolt next to the last bolt on Rightfoot probably to create a two-bolt anchor(no chains) which is about 5-7 feet or so below the existing anchor(which has the massive chains).  My guess is that this was done so topropes could be set up on both the Regular Route and Rightfoot when larger groups were climbing there.

Bruce - Brad actually shows two bolts there on his topo - page 159. He also describes the climb as 4 bolts - so maybe this sub-summit anchor has been there since the climb was established? Rubine's 1995 says 4 bolts too but doesn't mention the anchor and has no topo.
Bob? Care to chime in?
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Brad Young

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #116 on: February 28, 2015, 11:26:11 AM »

You could make money. No question. Just use low grade paper, existing topos, and overseas printing.


Munge, I re-read your post when I looked back at this thread  (partially quoted above). Now I wonder if I understood you correctly the first time I read it.

By using "existing topos" did you mean me using my existing topos, or someone else doing a Pinns "select" book using my existing topos?

I ask because I thought you were talking about me (when I first read it), but then I think you know I'd never do a book "on the cheap." So now I wonder if you were talking about someone else?

I don't think that someone else using my topos for a different book would be fair to me.


mungeclimber

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #117 on: February 28, 2015, 11:44:23 AM »
Sorry about the confusion. Yeah, that was directed at you.

And I know you wouldn't do it on the cheap, so it was more of lark post. Should have dropped a winking smiley on there.  And I know you are hip to copyright law in any event, so a full explanation wasn't really required.



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Bruce Hildenbrand

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #118 on: March 01, 2015, 11:22:37 PM »
Bruce - Brad actually shows two bolts there on his topo - page 159. He also describes the climb as 4 bolts - so maybe this sub-summit anchor has been there since the climb was established? Rubine's 1995 says 4 bolts too but doesn't mention the anchor and has no topo.
Bob? Care to chime in?

My friend Frosty and I replaced the upper three protection bolts(first bolt was already a 5-piece Rawl/Poers) on Rightfoot in December 2002.  At the time there was not a second bolt at the last bolt.  My guess is that after Brad and crew did Scragglepuss in 2006 he updated the topo.  So the second bolt was added sometime between 2002 and 2006.
It's a 5-piece Rawl/Powers.  I didn't look at it closely to see if it was plated or SS.

Bruce Hildenbrand

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Re: Author's official corrections to the new guidebook
« Reply #119 on: March 04, 2015, 05:04:56 PM »
Several notes about the Goal Posts...

South Goal Post - though there are no bolts for protection, I would call this route 5.5 rather than 4th class.

North Goal Post - the climbing route is on the North Face and not the East face as described in the guidebook.  There are two ways to do this route.  You can scramble down a poison oak infested gully on the north side of the formation and begin by climbing a mossy water streak with big holds for about 25' to the shoulder of the formation and a bolt on
the right.  From there climb up and left to the obvious weakness and the second bolt.

Another way to do this route is to traverse right 10' from the big ledge between the two goal posts to the second bolt and go up from there.