Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread

[mungeclimber]

Where is it now, and where is it going?

Sorry, not to be an arse, but it was a unique piece, and much like the garbage handle on Twinkle Toes, there are a lot of us that like clipping those unique pieces.

[Jim McConachie]

"Unfortunately, somebody had already replaced the two anchor bolts with nice 5-piece Rawls, but they put the bolts too far back from the top of the pinnacle to make a very useable rappel anchor."

I replaced the three manky belay bolts almost two years ago with stainless 5 piece.  Those were the ones you pulled Bruce.  Goal was to stay in the existing holes.  Rap wasn't too bad.  Good that you re-drilled in a better location with longer bolt.

[Jim McConachie]

Over the holiday break and more recently I spent some time at Yaks Wall doing bolt replacement.  First with my brother Bill and then solo (55 lb pack ugh).  Bill was a great sport hanging out on top for hours on the first day while I went at it out of sight below below.   

Shoot the Tube:  placed two new 3.5" x 3/8" 5 piece stainless with Fixe ring hangers; replaced two 1/4" rawls with leeper hangers and two 3/8 rawl split shafts - all with 1/2" 5 piece stainless.  I extracted the poison oak (pulling as much of the roots as possible) that had re-established itself in the upper chimney - should be good for another 25 to 30 years now.  Also I added one new bolt approximately half way between bolt number four and the top, so it's now a bit more sane for leaders.

(Footnote - I was the lucky one to get the very first lead onsite in February 1984, placing the original three bolts free stance, ending after dark and rappelling off the slung chockstone at the top with my last two slings tied together.  Since it was a 45 meter rope, down climbing blind from above the first bolt to the ground was required.  Our hike out, well after dark with no lights, was quite the adventure - multiple attempts trying to get down the slabs, eventually brush crashing all the way down the hillside from the saddle by Marmot Rocks to the rangers cabin. Back to the car near midnight.)  I added a forth bolt a year or so later - on lead. 

Dance on a Volcano:  replaced the two belay bolts (3/8" split shafts) and six bolts in field (three 1/4", three 3/8" split shafts) with 1/2" 5 piece stainless and chains on the belay.  Second bolt was moved down approximately 16" and slightly right to much better rock (a bit less ground fall potential when trying to clip too).

Split Infinity:  replaced the two 3/8" split shaft belay bolts and five bolts (four 3/8" split shafts, one 1/4") in the field with 1/2" stainless 5 piece and chains on the belay.

It's been years since I've done Shoot the Tube.  I will definitely be back on it next season.

Enjoy!!!  Thanks to ASCA for the replacement bolts and hangers.

[Bruce Hildenbrand]

"Unfortunately, somebody had already replaced the two anchor bolts with nice 5-piece Rawls, but they put the bolts too far back from the top of the pinnacle to make a very useable rappel anchor."

I replaced the three manky belay bolts almost two years ago with stainless 5 piece.  Those were the ones you pulled Bruce.  Goal was to stay in the existing holes.  Rap wasn't too bad.  Good that you re-drilled in a better location with longer bolt.

I pulled off all the webbing and rings off the bolts you placed, Jim, but left them in place.  I added two new bolts about 5 feet further south where the rock was better at the edge so the anchors could be closer to the lip.  Even doing that, I used 7 links of 3/8" chain on each bolt to get the rope as close to the edge as possible for an easy pull.

[Bruce Hildenbrand]

Where is it now, and where is it going?

Sorry, not to be an arse, but it was a unique piece, and much like the garbage handle on Twinkle Toes, there are a lot of us that like clipping those unique pieces.

When Sam Davidson was with the Access Fund(AF) he encouraged me to send the really historic stuff to the AF so they could mount it on a wood plaque and sell it at a fundraising auction. When we rebolted the Hand in 1997 I sent all that hardware to the AF and they promptly did nothing with it until they were cleaning out their offices and offered it to Gary Neptune and Marty Karabin for a song.

So, the stuff we replace gets tagged and sits in several boxes in my garage.  I have offered some of it to the Park Service for their historical displays and also to some of the FA teams if they want it for their collection/memories.

BTW, to add what Clint said the piton/bolt in question was a very old(1950's) Star Dryvin that was1-1/4" deep.  Clint popped it out by putting a crow bar behind it and viola.  While you, and a few others, might like to clip that bolt my guess is that there are way more climbers who would rather clip something which would actually hold a fall.

[mungeclimber]

I want to clip the hanger (not the old bolt, though I did that too).

that's unfortunate that the AF didn't do anything useful with it.


Seems like with all the really good pieces you guys have thankfully replaced, that a nice display box of bolts and breaking strengths and problems and history could be made.

Well, if we end up auctioning that one off, I best get an invite to the auction.

thx Bruce!

[JC w KC redux]

BTW, to add what Clint said the piton/bolt in question was a very old(1950's) Star Dryvin that was1-1/4" deep.  Clint popped it out by putting a crow bar behind it and viola.  While you, and a few others, might like to clip that bolt my guess is that there are way more climbers who would rather clip something which would actually hold a fall.

I am one of those climbers - the one who posted the pic and clipped that relic for nothing more than shits and giggles.
I knew I did not want to fall on it. Knowing the truth brings back a little shiver. I knew the beefy anchor would hold if I did fall but that would have been a long way down past my belayer. I wasn't sure it would ever be replaced since you have to lead something significantly harder just to get to that corner anchor.

[JC w KC redux]

Shoot the Tube:  (Footnote - I was the lucky one to get the very first lead onsite in February 1984, placing the original three bolts free stance, ending after dark and rappelling off the slung chockstone at the top with my last two slings tied together.  Since it was a 45 meter rope, down climbing blind from above the first bolt to the ground was required.  Our hike out, well after dark with no lights, was quite the adventure - multiple attempts trying to get down the slabs, eventually brush crashing all the way down the hillside from the saddle by Marmot Rocks to the rangers cabin. Back to the car near midnight.)  I added a forth bolt a year or so later - on lead. 

Sounds like a cool route Jim and the backstory is great.
Thanks for all the hard work!
Now I just need to up my game...

[JC w KC redux]

This is an updated topo showing the bolts now in place after Bruce and I did the replacement on 1/16/2013.

Thanks for the topo Bruce.
I'm one of the climbers who will actually go up and do this route.

[Gavin]

Over the holiday break and more recently I spent some time at Yaks Wall doing bolt replacement.  First with my brother Bill and then solo (55 lb pack ugh).  Bill was a great sport hanging out on top for hours on the first day while I went at it out of sight below below.   

It's been years since I've done Shoot the Tube.  I will definitely be back on it next season.

Enjoy!!!  Thanks to ASCA for the replacement bolts and hangers.

Jim, awesome work. I've been wanting to get on Split Infinity (and Dance On A Volcano) and will definitely do so next season, and get back on Shoot The Tube to try out the rebolted experience. The Yaks deserve a lot more traffic than they get.

[mynameismud]

In the future would it be possible to leave the original historic piece in place then put a new piece next to it?  I to really like to see some of the old fun stuff.  Kind of a bummer that it is all fading away.

[mynameismud]

Jim

thanks for replacing the bolts on Shoot The Tube that is a really good route. Same goes for Split Infinity.

For those that have not done Shoot the Tube get on it when it opens.  It is definitely worth doing.

[Bruce Hildenbrand]

In the future would it be possible to leave the original historic piece in place then put a new piece next to it?  I to really like to see some of the old fun stuff.  Kind of a bummer that it is all fading away.

Clint and I take rebolting and preserving as much of the history very seriously.  We discussed the option of leaving the old bolt in place, but decided against it for several reasons most notably that once the new bolt was in place that didn't insure that somebody wouldn't see the old bolt as unnecessary and remove it.

Sure, we could have re-used the bolted piton as the hanger, but again, someone might have unscrewed the bolt and replaced it.  And do you really want the only protection on the climb to be a hanger that is soft steel, not designed for the given use, and over 60 years old?

Sometimes you have to make hard decisions that won't please everybody.  It is a lot of work to do rebolting and we want our efforts to be the best solution for many years to come, not just the next five or ten years.  To that end it is important to use the best materials available so someone isn't out there replacing our stuff in the next decade.

[F4?]

New bolts are great..shiny ones too. To heck with the historical value.

Jim once told me that bolts were hard to come by back then and they used that they could. Scary to think years later they are still in place and folks clip them.

It's great to see Jim going back and cleaning up his routes. Maybe even adding one or two? I won't argue...

[mungeclimber]

is soft steel, not designed for the given use, and over 60 years old?

only the best for the mud and crudders!!

[JC w KC redux]

What???

It's a great line. That bolt is just fine....

Uh huh...

[JC w KC redux]

New bolts are great..shiny ones too. To heck with the historical value.

Yep...wonder which version is the real F4

[Bruce Hildenbrand]

....... I extracted the poison oak (pulling as much of the roots as possible) that had re-established itself in the upper chimney - should be good for another 25 to 30 years now. 

Jim,

you are a saint!!!!

[mungeclimber]

New bolts are great..shiny ones too. To heck with the historical value.

Jim once told me that bolts were hard to come by back then and they used that they could. Scary to think years later they are still in place and folks clip them.

It's great to see Jim going back and cleaning up his routes. Maybe even adding one or two? I won't argue...

No doubt Bruce. PO work is the realm of the angels!


F4, what part of

I added a forth bolt a year or so later - on lead. 

did you not pick up on? 

[mynameismud]

Clint and I take rebolting and preserving as much of the history very seriously.  We discussed the option of leaving the old bolt in place, but decided against it for several reasons most notably that once the new bolt was in place that didn't insure that somebody wouldn't see the old bolt as unnecessary and remove it.

Sure, we could have re-used the bolted piton as the hanger, but again, someone might have unscrewed the bolt and replaced it.  And do you really want the only protection on the climb to be a hanger that is soft steel, not designed for the given use, and over 60 years old?

Sometimes you have to make hard decisions that won't please everybody.  It is a lot of work to do rebolting and we want our efforts to be the best solution for many years to come, not just the next five or ten years.  To that end it is important to use the best materials available so someone isn't out there replacing our stuff in the next decade.

Bruce,
I admire the work that you and Clint do and I think the two of you about are about the best there is.  I agree that not having the pin as a hanger is a good idea.  Just thought have the old piece in parallel would be nice.  Does this mean we are going to go and remove all the old historical pieces because someone might take them?  Well on the bright side hopefully this will inspire folks to go about and put some new fun creative pieces out there.