Official Rebolting and Route Hardware suggestion thread

[JC w KC redux]

The bolt at the start of the route is about one foot off the ground.  It looks like it was placed as a belay anchor.

I must be starting p1 of OO in the wrong place

Geez - rebolting around Bruce and Clint is like playing guitar next to Al Di Meola!

You guys are incredible!!!

Those baby star dryvs are wee little fellars

[mungeclimber]

Attempt a free version, adding bolts as high as the tree would allow.

Failing a free set of moves direct, moves in from the right could be connected.

If that is contrived, a bolt ladder, since the route already has one? This should be a last resort unless Glen has some specific thoughts.

One thing I learned was that if you hit your finger with your hammer multiple times it really starts to hurt, a lot!

[Brad Young]

Brad,

actually, I have been spending some time with Glen.  I was up at his place in SF a few weeks ago looking over his latest project.  His book of B/W images that came out a few years ago started with an article I was writing about Glen for Climbing magazine.  His next project should be just as good!

I sent Glen the first four bolts Clint and I replaced on Daedalus so he knows we are working on it.  Do you have a proposal for what to do about the first pitch?

Nice Bruce. I've told him that, with one exception, all the bolts that I've clipped that those two placed are solid still to this day (and the one exception was on a bolt ladder with no good rock within reach).

I'll bet he'll be tickled to get the old bolts back.

On that first pitch, I agree with Rob, that Glen (and Gary if he's interested) should get the first thoughts. But the route is 5.8 A1 and it would be a shame to do a relatively run out 5.11 start (as an example) thus changing an old, historic route into something it's never been.

It's been a long time since Factor and I did the route, but I suspect that - to keep it in the 5.8 A1 range - it'd take a three or four bolt aid bolt ladder to get to about where one used to get to with the tree/Chimney. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me (we'll see if Glen agrees    ).

BTW, does anyone know of a third ascent of the route? It's pretty out there run-out, but with new bolts it may be less of a scarefest.

[Brad Young]

Geez - rebolting around Bruce and Clint is like playing guitar next to Al Di Meola!

You guys are incredible!!!

Now, now. From each according to their abilities and to each according to their needs. They contribute one hell of a lot to the whole Pinns rebolting effort. But don't lose sight of the fact that you and Kat do too!

[Brad Young]

...moves in from the right could be connected....

I think the headwall is steep enough, far enough to the right that coming in from that side wouldn't gain anything but a weird, almost horizontal traverse.

No doubt that, if something is done, it needs to be by an expert (most of whom are on this site, reading this)  

Makes me kinda glad that Factor and I got the second ascent though, kinda like having done the Royal Arches route in The Valley using the famous "rotten log." (Although I missed that by three months when I climbed the route in 1984.)

[F4?]

It's been a long time since Factor and I did the route, but I suspect that - to keep it in the 5.8 A1 range - it'd take a three or four bolt aid bolt ladder to get to about where one used to get to with the tree/Chimney. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me (we'll see if Glen agrees  Wink  ).

Agreed, it will take 3-4, and they can be stretchers after the 1st...

Yeah, I dreamed of floating up as a free version....but reality is it's undercut/ steep.

We could replant another tree and wait.

[Brad Young]

We could replant another tree and wait.

    

[Bruce Hildenbrand]

Now, now. From each according to their abilities and to each according to their needs. They contribute one hell of a lot to the whole Pinns rebolting effort. But don't lose sight of the fact that you and Kat do too!

I second that sentiment.  I really appreciate all the rebolting efforts.  It's a lot of hard work!  They never taught me how to climb with a crowbar when I took Basic Rockcraft:-)

[Bruce Hildenbrand]

I should add that now Bill's Bad Bolts has all stainless on pitches 2 &3.  The long bolt ladder on pitch 1 still is a mix of the good, the bad and the ugly.  The only bolt I replaced on this latest effort was the last bolt just before you do the 20' of 5.6 to the belay.  The old bolt was a 1/4" Star Dryvin.  I figured if you got that far and the junk held you deserve to breathe a little easier.

[clink]

Do you have a proposal for what to do about the first pitch?

I have been spending some time with Glen.

 Calling all of Machete's first ascensionist for a treeless ascent- Waldo, Glen, Gary, Bruce, the Mud's, Brad, Jim, Clint, F4, Munge, Larry... (or leave it as is and use an extra long stick clip).

[waldo]

I should add that now Bill's Bad Bolts has all stainless on pitches 2 &3.  The long bolt ladder on pitch 1 still is a mix of the good, the bad and the ugly.  The only bolt I replaced on this latest effort was the last bolt just before you do the 20' of 5.6 to the belay.  The old bolt was a 1/4" Star Dryvin.  I figured if you got that far and the junk held you deserve to breathe a little easier.

I'm all for breathing easier! Thanks for your great work, Bruce!  I'll confess now that there was a fixed pin (a medium angle) halfway up the 2nd pitch. I decided it was at best psychological pro and took it out twenty years ago, or so. It's protecting my old Pinnacles climbing guides now.

[mynameismud]

If there is a line that can be done free that should have precedence even if that means the aid is somewhat suboptimal.  

[clink]

The coveted first free of tree ascent.

[mungeclimber]

If there is a line that can be done free that should have precedence even if that means the aid is somewhat suboptimal.  

doesn't that change the character of the original line? 

Deference goes to the FA author and their intent in a case like this, rather than a blanket preference for free.

my previous post didn't make that clear.

So it should be...

1. FA author preference
2. If there is no care either direction, then consensus.
3. Consensus should be based on existing principles.
4. Existing principles of preserving the original route in as close an approximation as possible has the highest priority.
5. Since the character of the "free" tree climbing has change, much like a rock section breaking off, then it falls to the next best principle one can appeal to.
6. That then is free climbing, with the highest protection bolt being no higher than the highest possible slung spot on where the tree would have been. i.e. at that same level.
7. Failing that, but I'm sure if the bottom first moves will go, then the upper section of where the tree would have been is possible since the tree was 'free'... yeah, so failing that because the bottom won't go, then climbing consistent a variant with the difficulty of the existing line seems reasonable. Hence interest in coming in from the side. Which wouldn't be dead horizontal necessarily, but protection bolts above a 'tree' high point might make it lean hard to the left depending on the free climbing options.

[Bruce Hildenbrand]

I'm all for breathing easier! Thanks for your great work, Bruce!  I'll confess now that there was a fixed pin (a medium angle) halfway up the 2nd pitch. I decided it was at best psychological pro and took it out twenty years ago, or so. It's protecting my old Pinnacles climbing guides now.

Waldo,

that explains the big gap between the first bolt at the start of the ramp and the four bolts at the top of the ramp on pitch 2.  I was wondering about that!  BTW, I have the knifeblade that was placed at the start of the ramp.  It is partially rusted through.

[mynameismud]

doesn't that change the character of the original line? 

I think the tree falling did changed the character of the original line.

[mungeclimber]

right, so we start with the principle of keeping it as much like the original line as possible, no?

[mynameismud]

which was basically aid.  So if it can be freed and people just aid the new free line then there is no real change in the character of the line.

[waldo]

Waldo,

that explains the big gap between the first bolt at the start of the ramp and the four bolts at the top of the ramp on pitch 2.  I was wondering about that!  BTW, I have the knifeblade that was placed at the start of the ramp.  It is partially rusted through.

Rusted? It was only up there for twenty-seven years or so!  That ramp was a lot easier than I expected. Still, that run should have a bolt in the middle near where the pin used to be.

[F4?]

Just install a few aid bolts and let someone try to free it....sans splinters (that tree sucked ass).

Or have Clink make a fiberglass tree and we bolt it to the side of the cliff. It would not require any water and restore the view...a win win!

Is it open?

Clink I have a few bolts and a hand drill.