Indian Rock Rebolting

[Runout]

A fellow from Smith is now at Castle and Indian re-bolting. The outcome at Smith was friction with both locals and the park. The park at Smith created a moratorium on bolting.

Related threads:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/119482266/shawn-snyder-via-ferrata-stupidity

https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/120095113/new-fixe-hardware-installed-on-most-of-indian-rock-and-lime-disease-as-a-special

[NOAL]

Saw this on Mt. Project too. 

Too bad he did not go through the proper channels and then posted about it on the internet.  Other than that do not know the whole story but it looks like the BACC is not happy.   Seemed like they were making good progress with the re-bolting at Castle Rock (Cal ridge etc) and doing it in conjunction with the park. 

[F4?]

Sigh, here we go again.

20-30years later and we still have this issue.

[mynameismud]

yep.  they should have banned all lead bolting at CRSP 20 years ago.

[NOAL]

Wonder where he will go next......

[F4?]

Ugh

[NOAL]

Now where could use a bunch of glue in's... hmmmm

[F4?]

Diablo? Yosemite?

[mungeclimber]

All the anchors I saw at Lyme and Indian appeared to be good quality. Pulling the wedge bolts has been a challenge from what I hear. Right now, it appears that small mussy hooks are being used on Indian Rock. I noticed one screw gate appeared to be undersized and ought to be bumped up to 3/8" from 5/16" at the earliest opportunity. I understand from Coop that the mussys for the other anchor stations are going in soon.

I'll update if I hear more, unless Coop posts up. [Coop is not the Shawn guy in the threads. I don't know Shawn.]

[F4?]

1 slight niggle, as an anchor, the eye should have enough room for multiple clips. It was hard to get 2x in.

[mungeclimber]

That's fair.

[Crustanddust]

hello,

I am the cooper in question, i have quick links and rap rings ordered. I've chatted with a few other local climbers and it seems like mussys are going to be a better call so i will get on that as well. any recommendations on where to order those (or pick em up) is appreciated

[Crustanddust]

apologies about the space in the eye, I am seeing now how that will be an issue.

that said we opted to notch the bolts further into the rock because we believed it to give it better resistance to loading in different directions.

another point to be made (and one that can be seen at castle rock across the street)  is that the wave bolts have some amount of flex even when placed properly. this can be seen on the second bolt on mullah and on one of the anchor bolts on the 5.7.

I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before or knows of this creating any serious issues? I know that wave bolts are incredibly strong and I am not questioning the strength of any of those bolts. just wondering if the shock loading over time + the flex in the wave bolts could create issues.

[mungeclimber]

another point to be made (and one that can be seen at castle rock across the street)  is that the wave bolts have some amount of flex even when placed properly. this can be seen on the second bolt on mullah and on one of the anchor bolts on the 5.7.

I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before or knows of this creating any serious issues? I know that wave bolts are incredibly strong and I am not questioning the strength of any of those bolts. just wondering if the shock loading over time + the flex in the wave bolts could create issues.

Coop, have you talked to Jim Thornburg? He's the one that did some of the other glue bolts at Pinns and has used glue ins elsewhere on bay area choss. He's on insta.

[F4?]

Agree with Mungie, Jim would understand.

We here are familiar more with 5 piece bolts put in on lead from shitty hooks by hand.

What is needed is constancy across all of Castle Rock. I thought there was a group doing the rebooting already.

Over the past 30-40 years I have been going to Castle I have seen many many attempts are bolted anchors.

It need to be consistent as the rock IS fragile.

[Crustanddust]

i also agree that consistency is needed. but I'm not sure that the selected bolts are the way to go.

 i have talked to Jim a little bit through Instagram and i will ask if he has heard of any issues with the flex in the wave bolts.

I'm not sure who specifically did the bolts at castle but there is for sure a lack of attention to detail for the finished product (glue smeared everywhere, sharp edges created by the glue, inconsistent bolt sizes, bolts placed to close to existing holes, quicklink chains running over edges, not to mention the falls route re bolted with compression bolts.)

I'm not trying to step on anyones toes, or go as far as to say that the people installing the bolts at castle are unqualified, but I do think that we need to make sure that the people doing the re bolting understand the wants/needs of the people using the crag.

from my understanding (and i have briefly spoken to a ranger about this) the BACC has an agreement with the state park. but does not have an agreement with the county park, and i believe that this is why we were able to do what we did. from what the ranger said it sounds like climbers in county parks are supposed to maintain their own equipment. As i said earlier this was only a brief very informal conversation and if anyone knows better please feel free to speak up.

[mungeclimber]

The county parks are probably relying on the state's recreational liability law and common law regarding negligence torts. Brad probably remembers the state law on point.

The idea has been land managers don't incur a duty to protect under the doctrine of assumption of the risk. Historically that meant unless there was a formal ban, climbers could replace their own gear generally speaking. Not sure if what Sanborn, etc has dictated or communicated. Bruce Morris may know.