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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 05:55:56 PM »

...

Pitch 1. Tricky and insecure for 5.8, but could plausibly be 5.8, so I wouldn't suggest modifying the grade.

If you look at the adjectives that everyone uses to describe it, I think we are all saying the same thing:

 - Among Ricky's comment on MP is the following statement: "It isn't that powerful, but parts are thin and insecure"
 - Mudworm comments down thread: "I was glad to be wearing my precision face climbing shoes on the lower part of p1."

My own experience (following) was the same. The climbing felt insecure, because in places the options for hands were poor and the climbing is ALL feet, sometimes on holds that do not inspire tremendous confidence (mostly referring to friction here rather than rock quality). That said, the feet all held and the pitch is fairly low angle so support from hands isn't really needed.

I think that people who've done a lot of granite slab climbing feel easier about the pitch because, yes... this is really slabby climbing.

Kinda like Dos Equis?

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Chris Henry on April 11, 2025, 05:21:45 PM »

Fun discussion!

To disclose my own priors, I'm always happy to yap about grades i.e. " felt hard for 5.whatever" - but I generally avoid actually re-grading (up or down) unless it feels really out-of-whack with an area.

Pitch 1. Tricky and insecure for 5.8, but could plausibly be 5.8, so I wouldn't suggest modifying the grade.

If you look at the adjectives that everyone uses to describe it, I think we are all saying the same thing:

 - Among Ricky's comment on MP is the following statement: "It isn't that powerful, but parts are thin and insecure"
 - Mudworm comments down thread: "I was glad to be wearing my precision face climbing shoes on the lower part of p1."

My own experience (following) was the same. The climbing felt insecure, because in places the options for hands were poor and the climbing is ALL feet, sometimes on holds that do not inspire tremendous confidence (mostly referring to friction here rather than rock quality). That said, the feet all held and the pitch is fairly low angle so support from hands isn't really needed.

I imagine the experience of leading it would feel quite different, especially pre-bolt replacement.

Pitch 3. After all the careful climbing below, this section feels like quite a relief.

P3 is steeper than P1 ... but there are freaking jugs (hands and feet) everywhere. I should say, the "10a" section has that weird flakey exoskeleton sometimes encountered at Pinnacles. But, even avoiding all the holds of this nature there were plenty of good options.

Comparing the P1 and P3 is hard. It is like comparing Walk on the Wild Side (5.8 in JT) to Gem (5.8 in JT).

But, P3 isn't nearly as demanding as other Pinnacles 10a (i.e. Terranean Tango, Stupendous Man, Dances with Warthogs) or 5.9s (Little Javelina, Jorgie's Crack, Wet Kiss). So a downward revision may be appropriate.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 05:10:02 PM »

The truth is being revealed.  I can only climb 5.8.  Therefore many things become 5.8.  Just as many things look 5.7 from the ground.

You say this in jest, but I can't count the number of times that I've had discussions exactly like this with Tom about his routes in The Lost World (up here).

"Tom, that can't be 5.11c, I redpointed it."

"Tom, that can't be 5.11a, I on-sighted it."

His response is usually along the lines of how "everyone" thinks the route is [insert here his grade] and me not being aware of how "strong" I am. Uh-huh, right. I've actually never climbed with "everyone." But apparently he has.

(Love you Tom... even though you'll never read this.)

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by NOAL on April 11, 2025, 04:15:24 PM »

The truth is being revealed.  I can only climb 5.8.  Therefore many things become 5.8.  Just as many things look 5.7 from the ground.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 04:02:37 PM »

I have climbed this [Burtons Below] with a sprained ankle as it started to rain and was slightly damp. I have also led it at least a half dozen times.

 I know a certain someone advocated hard to have this bumped up to 5.9 but it's 5.8.

I guess that sometimes there's just no way around climb ratings being highly variable and subjective.

At last year's "old mens' trip" both Steve D and Caleb R led this on-sight. Dave Harden and Joel each followed (Joel had fallen from the first crux years ago and almost decked - one of two climbers who'd had that happen).

There was a strong consensus that the route has two 5.9 sections.

Even Steve Wong and I thought "5.8+" when we originally put it up (and before I realized that 5.9+ really is the only real "plus" or "minus" rating).

Steve D comes on here now and then. I'll see if I can get him to speak for himself.

EDIT: And I'm pretty sure that holds have broken off on this at the first crux. My very faint memory from when we put it up is that this lower section was a little easier than the pull-over at the top. It certainly surprised me when people started falling off at this part of the climb.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 03:55:58 PM »

5.8c

Aha. Ryan also has a sense of humor.

I think that comparing this variation pitch to the route's first pitch is really helpful.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 03:54:27 PM »

And mudworm, I called you a heretic above (which I can do because I know you have a good sense of humor). I just thought of a return to your original comment which I will put down here and then listen to you gasp from 140 miles away.

Do you remember my older daughter Katie? You know, the one you met and hung out with several times and in particular, helped with math problems in the car driving to the east side of the Sierra?





She's about to turn 30.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 03:53:17 PM »

It sounds like it really wouldn't be a sandbag to call the variation of pitch three 5.8 and that's what I'm leaning toward. Rate the whole/original route 5.8 (with its third pitch at 5.7 R) and the third pitch variation also 5.8.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 03:48:17 PM »

Also, I typed my original question between tasks at work and did not mean to omit you Chris. Please feel free to chime in, although the heretic did take the time to quote you and so in a sense your opinions were stated again.

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Masters of Mud -- Pinnacles / Re: Condor Condiment Rebolting

« Last post by Brad Young on April 11, 2025, 03:46:18 PM »

...would you consider erasing the 5.7 variation on P3?

You only typed these words so that you could pause at work and hear me gasp from 140 miles away.